Greetings all.
I have read on this and other forums from time to time about bit rot and it’s inevitable result on filesystems that have no method to combat it.
Besides using ZFS (not available on Drobo), are there any tools to check for this problem? Is it of the order magnitude that it needs to be checked?
I run my Drobos (5D, Gen2) attached to a Mac Mini, so something I can use in OS X would be appreciated. (command line is fine, I used to admin a couple of Solaris boxes running FW-1)
Thanks.
AFAIK the 5 bay drobos and above run a background verification on a monthly basis, so bit rot is not an issue for them
Some kind of period hash/CRC/checksum verification would help detect any external or internal changes.
I’ve had a few random file copies copy wrong - the data sent to Drobo was wrong with respect to the source, and Drobo scrubbing wouldn’t detect that - it would just happily preserve the wrong data that was written.
This has happened even outside the context of Drobo, so now I use Integrity Checker periodically on my server files. Sorry, don’t know of a comparable Mac equivalent.
IOW: Verify after copy is important as Read 00, Write 01, Actually Wrote 01 is bad.
mgriffin, that’s a great question.
I remember a Drobo rep once posted that DroboPro performs sector validation on drives, but I don’t have a citation for that.
I would expect a company to shout about such an important feature. Instead, I’ve been unable to find any mention of sector validation on Drobo’s web site or their documentation. It wouldn’t be the first time they silently removed a feature.
there we go 
(i was on a bus when i replied initially and couldnt be bothered to look at the support site on my phone)
Interesting thread…
Here are my own thoughts. There TWO very different concepts intermingled here:
True data scrubbing, such as ZFS does, which can find and correct “bit rot”.
Disk sector testing, which attempts to find bad disk sectors before you do when you happen upon them while reading and writing to a drive.
Both Drobo and ZFS claim to do “disk scrubbing”, but ZFS is doing #1 and #2, while we don’t really know exactly what Drobo does because Drobo does not disclose exactly what it does. They just say “we do it on certain models”.
My understanding is that in order to check for #1 (true bit rot) the file system or Raid manager needs to maintain dedicated parity some sort of independent checksum. For example, with basic Raid 5/6, it is possible to determine if bit rot has happened because the data will not compute the same parity bit stored on the parity drive (or Drobo parity zone?). But it can’t fix it if it cannot unambiguously determine which is wrong.
There is a lot of value in #2 (sector scrubbing) because it helps to prevent multiple drive failures when a drive is replaced or upgraded, resulting in all the sectors on all the remaining drives to be suddenly read. And that is likely why people seem to experience a lot of multi-drive Raid failures.
I periodically test for bit rot by bit comparing my working data against backups, and sifting through the exceptions, looking for differences that don;t make sense. For a number of reasons peculiar to some software I use and how I generally configure my backups, I get a lot of false positives.
However, I have never conclusively found a single example of true spontaneous bit rot. The only difference si have found is attributable to hardware failures or other strangeness in the copy process.
I have had occasional corruption of Nikon raw (.NEF) image files but I have rarely found the actual cause or determined when it happened. Nikon Raw files are very sensitive to bit flips. One flip would likely render the file useless. As such it is a good test and I have 3 or 4 terabytes of that test data.
All I am saying is that we need to be careful about what we are talking about when we talk about “bit rot” and “scrubbing”.[hr]
P.S. My own personal opinion is that, unless and until Drobo provides a more detailed description of its “scrubbing” I assume it only does sector scrubbing unless Drobo specifically claims otherwise.
Any other conclusion would be pure speculation and I never speculate about my data. I assume the worst.
And this lack of disclosure is just one more example of where Drobo culturally prefers to leave their users in the dark about many critical things. To them this is a toaster appliance- the user needs to know as little as possible. I view it otherwise and think they take that to an extreme, and consider that a rather large negative in the Drobo vs the world equation.
That integrity checker is a nice idea and very reasonably priced. Shame it won’t run on Win7.
[quote=“NeilR, post:8, topic:52097”]
However, I have never conclusively found a single example of true spontaneous bit rot. The only difference si have found is attributable to hardware failures or other strangeness in the copy process.[/quote]
Agree. I have so far never encountered a situation where bad data wasn’t already bad before it got to the storage - at least none that I can confirm.
[quote=“NeilR, post:8, topic:52097”]
That integrity checker is a nice idea and very reasonably priced. Shame it won’t run on Win7.[/quote]
Integrity Checker has a PC client but as it’s designed to complement to the server add-in, it can only read hashes, not generate them.
Write to their support - maybe you can help convince them that it’s a viable standalone product. 
ive found examples of bit rot (eg where final storage medium started good and then became bad) - but that was on “separate” medium entities.
eg, single hard drives, zipdisks, cdroms, floppies etc. (not so far on the final drobo medium)
Ive got i think 1 main thread where i posted some info on how i was backing up old project work onto a drobo.
the thread id is 1999, but it’s a lot more recent than that 
http://www.drobospace.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=1999
i think if we can narrow the following down, and confirm answers to these, we should be able to devise a way to achieve bit-rot-prevention and detection:
which models of drobo “scrub” - is it Just the drobopro?
if so, its good, though how does that help non-drobo-pro models?
what “triggers” scrubbing or what makes the drobo compare a files data across the other protected storage?
IF simply accessing a file for a copy/paste/open operation, or reading all parts of a file for a hash/checksum generation/verification, is all that is needed to trigger it, then there must be some kind of basic command line tool we can use to “read” all files and do nothing with them so that it triggers all internal file checks?
Quickpar has a command line version which is said to be very powerful. i think it also has dubfolder support (or someone made a clone of it with extra features. i only used the original quickpar in some cases, but it always worked fine.
Drobo S was introduced with data scrubbing.
ref: http://174.143.241.166/products/drobo-s.php and http://www.macworld.com/article/1144046/new_drobo.html
I haven’t tried the Mac version (or the Windows one for that matter), but there is a version of Integrity Checker for the Mac:
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